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Scomo is scum. Nothing but a conservative yank wannabe. His attitude (much like most of Aussie politicians) to climate change is disgusting. I don’t actually think we need to look at the effects of how it’s going to play out, we saw it two years ago with the vast bush fires and I truly hope the aussies don’t forget how he behaved. But that’s a separate issue. Apologies, when you said they were demonstrably bollocks, I thought you meant the outcomes. The figures that Aussie state / NZ govt set were to protect the health services from being overwhelmed. Whilst not backed by science per-se (and therefore arbitrary) it became clear herd immunity wasn’t going to be achieved at a lower figure as well as airlines likely requiring vaccination before flying. All their alert levels relating back to these numbers were just trying to limit spread. An ultra cautious approach, one which allowed us to eliminate alpha and significantly limit delta. Whilst my tone may concern you, this is based on what I’ve seen personally, not the government messaging / protocols. I’ve seen them attacking staff (both physically and verbally), I’ve seen the vandalised shops, I’ve seen the selfishness of a grand mother who who faked a vaccine passport, lied their way down the country, despite the request of her son and daughter in law not to see them or visit some of their family as they’ve a 3 week old baby. This is her choice. She has no logical reason for not getting vaccinated apart from becoming magnetic, anti 5G and pro conspiracy theory . it’s worth noting for context that she was also a twat before covid, so it’s not a case of needing to feel sorry for her. The people that attend the anti vax protests here are the vulnerable (in mind), the mob and the more contrarian thinkers. They’ve been encouraged not to get vaccinated by various pseudo religious leaders which is not seen before moving here. The opposition are trying to make this political by trying to oppose this that and the other, but all it’s done is show them up to be pro big business. there’s a big difference between vaccine hesitant and anti vax. The latter have proven themselves to be selfish and awful human beings. How to make social media companies accountable for the amount of misinformation and push they allow on their platforms is something that needs to be discussed. How governments can do this, I don’t know but whilst the number of Ill-informed is low, they are very vocal. I guess I’m more exposed to the numbers of them than some others may be as I live in an area with a low vaccination rate, as well as being close to / working in the capital, I see a higher proportion. im hoping the above is coherent, buts its been a very early start.

The vaccines do both - they reduce the chance of catching/spreading the virus and they reduce the severity if you do catch it. Getting vaccinated is a bit like giving your body a bunch of weapons/information to help it fight off an infection. It increases the ability of your body's defences but it doesn't make you invincible. What you're arguing here is that there's some crucial distinction between the ability of a vaccine to prevent infection completely and the ability of a vaccine to reduce the severity of an infection but the reality is that those are both determined by the same thing (how effective your body is at fighting the infection) and that's what the vaccine improves.

Rico has covered it but by missing out the first sentence of his last paragraph you have missed the point he was making

Have to disagree with you both. Joe is still one of best keepers in the league and I think better than Clark. Admittedly Clark could still improve and if this was 2024 then it might be a move you would make but with 2 years still to run on his contract and at the prime age for a keeper I would not be looking to move Joe on. Plenty other positions that need addressing first.

The Queensland government are responsible for keeping Queensland's safe and healthy in relation to covid. They have made mistakes of course like every government does/has. So when should they allow interstate travel into QLD? They have to set some figures and an 80% majority is deemed enough to have certain restrictions lessened and their citizens safe. At 90%, travellers from around the world will be allowed into QLD. They need to have some guidelines to allow venues to reopen and encourage non vaccinated to get the jabs. Every government is controlling.It's part of their job. Therefore by not adhering to these fair government rules they actually ARE stopping families seeing their loved ones. I've yet to hear a decent argument from citizens refusing to get a jab. Nobody here has. We are all scared and fed up. We all want normality back and the only way to get that is to get nearly all populations vaccinated ASAP. It's not all the fault of anti vaxxers and people refusing to wear masks but by fuck they aren't helping.

I think it is time for Lewis to move on. He has been absolutely immense for us and the best keeper we have had for a long time but he's just reached that point where his best years are behind him and for the last year or so just has not been good enough and thrown in too many bad mistakes for my liking. He may be settled up here but you have to be ruthless and our squad needs a real shake up in order to move forward. Lewis is symtomatic of what is wrong with the squad in general, too many players in a comfort zone, bimbling merrily along earning a decent wage but lacking hunger and desire to really push on. Clark looks a really good keeper, at 29 is at a decent age and is likely to be in contention to be the next Scotland keeper once Gordon and Marshall finally call it a day. Sign him up.

This thread...

You're mixing up two things here though. There is a lot of data in the public domain from Europe, Israel and Asia (and US of course) that shows the efficacy of vaccination. It does reduce the risk of hospitalisation and death and also the reduces your ability to infect others. It does so in exactly the manner it was suggested it would. The evidence to back this up is provided by the fact that you need a booster after the effects wear off after 6 months. There was never any data that suggested you couldn't transmit covid having been vaccinated and hasn't been intimated since very early in the vaccination process (as soon as the data was available, it was clear that covid could still be transmitted despite vaccination). It's frustrating that people are still perpetuating the myth, and it almost always seems to be from people saying "you told us we couldn't pass on covid, what's the point in vaccination?", rather than from people advocating vaccination. It's basic straw man arguing, and it's deliberate. They throw up a "fact" and cite as evidence of manipulation or change, when it's not the case. By getting vaccinated, you reduce the likelihood of infecting others, you are not - for the most part if you're healthy - doing it to protect yourself. I think if you test yourself regularly, wear a mask indoors, socially distance among those you don't know and let those you do, know your vaccine status I think that's just as good as getting vaccinated in the main. I think forcing people to get vaccinated is wrong. It doesn't prevent spread (it slows it), and there is no value at which herd immunity from covid can be established. Our antipodean friends putting arbitrary percentages on the number of people who need to be vaccinated before certain measures are lifted is demonstrably bollocks, and it is their governments who should be held to account for this and not the minority of people who have chosen not to be vaccinated.

What kind of response are you wanting? People have responded before, they just don't share your views. It's like you want a fight but others don't want to fight or name call. We're a bunch of strangers on line with a common interest, discussing something very political. That gets ugly. I don't want to fight with strangers. You can respectfully agree or disagree, your call. I can only give a perspective of someone who lives in the states. Covid is political. I have not received any covid vaccine and will not until all my questions are answered. Or never. I'm not a crazy anti-vaxxer but I'm sure the crazy name calling will come. If a really new cool car came on the market that was sold as very cheap, sexy, ultra safe, and good for the environment (a car for the greater good!) people would buy it. But if it started to break down, blow up, and kill people in accidents, it would be recalled and taken off the market. While the vaccine has saved lives, it has taken lives. Why is it not taken off the market? I know people who have died from it and I know people that have been damaged by it. Research Dr Danice Hertz in Santa Monica, a doctor who got the vaccine because it was the right thing to do. She has been damaged but now shunned and outcast by the medical community and is now campaigning world wide for fully vaccine transparency. Listen to Eric Clapton talk about it, even Jeremy Chardy. They are public figures whose careers have been ended by the vaccine. I actually think listening to Joe Rogan of all people is of interest. Listen to doctors who talk about the problems with vaccines. Why are they all being discredited and being told they are spreading misinformation? They are educated and qualified people too. Listen to the doctors who developed the mRNA vaccine too, they have concerns. When I hear government tell me the vaccine is safe I know they are lying. They won't tell you about major side effects. Indeed, when you ask they are like you, you are jumped on, punished, and treated like criminals. Talk to the people who got the J&J vaccine and were told it was safe, and then developed blood clots. It's now not recommended because, infact, it's not safe. We are not getting full medical transparency, and all info. My wife works with doctors who are working with vaccine damaged patients. These people are being shut out and not heard. These people are being told they are the misinformation spreaders and being blocked from twitter, youtube, facebook etc. Those sharing the alternative story to the one the government is pushing are being shut down and cancelled. Why is our media being censored? Do you believe you are getting accurate and real news or are you being told a story that fits an agenda? I don't believe I'm being given all the real information to make an informed decision about getting a vaccine. It is, after all, an irreversible medical procedure. My life has been completely changed due to this vaccine. I'm about to lose my job over it, and my son has been kicked out of school because HIS PARENTS aren't vaccinated. That's fucked up. My live is severely limited in what I can do and where I can go. I'm relocating to Florida because I believe in their stance of how to live your life. My sister died of cancer in November. She was 50 and I'm actually 49 today. This is my second sibling to die of cancer. There are reports that cancer patients in remission have seen cancer return after being vaccinated. My sisters treatment stopped working right after she was vaccinated. Coincidence? I honestly don't know but there is simply not enough studies/evidence of the covid vaccine and cancer to reassure me that it doesn't stimulate cancer in any way. My sister left behind a husband, and two boys 11 and 13. I have a wife, a 3 and 6 year old. I'm, not willing to put any of my families lives at risk when I simply don't know enough about this vaccine. Nobody does, it's too new. Nobody can tell me long term side effects and consequences. We are now seeing the vaccine pushed to kids when if you follow the science and look at studies and evidence, kids are at more risk being injured and dying in a car accident than being injured and dying of covid. That's fucked up but why is this happening? We are still not being told 100% factually where covid came from. Why? If this is that big an issue we would know. What are we not being told? We are obsessed with covid cases when that is not the issue. The issue is severity of covid. The vast majority of cases now are minor symptoms. It 's winter, cold and flu season, everyone gets sick in winter. Old people and compromised people die every winter. I don't believe the situation right now is much different to other winters, everyone gets runny noses, coughs, colds etc. yet we are obsessed with covid and listen to government tell us how to live. You can name call and tell me I'm a fucking lunatic. I got that just over a year ago when I said Trump was a better alternative than the democrats, even though Trump was a lunatic. I think I'm proven right given how the last year has passed, and I think I am right again with covid. While covid vaccine has saved lives, it has taken lives. We should be educating people on healthy lifestyles and how to live better, and live with covid. That's the smart thing to do. But those trying to treat covid with alternative methods are being shut out. Why? Getting everyone healthy and making their own choices doesn't benefit government, or big pharma. For what it's worth, America requires more vaccines that any other modern country in the world - is that because we are the smartest? The healthiest? Or the greediest? Pfizer has made over $33 billion off covid as I've said before. The government doesn't do anything for the people. It's a business obsessed with power, money, greed, and control. If it was about health the vaccine info would have been shared worldwide immediately, it was not. We wouldn't have an open southern border with unvaccinated and untested illegals coming in if it was abut health. This goes on and on. I'm not a crazy anti-vaxxer, pushing flat earth, believing in microchips in vaccines etc. I just think we don't know enough to make an informed decision. If you believe you have all info and it's the right thing to do then get the vaccine, good for you. But I do believe given the newness and the lack of full transparency, it should be a choice.

Come Al you actually expect these work shy colonial types to actually do anything. I mean there is not even a match thread up for next game.

Thought my fellow administrators based in the Southen Hemisphere might have merged these threads whilst the rest of us were in the land of nod At least Rico and HaarDon can sleep easy tonight safe in the knowledge there is only one Calvin Ramsay thread now.