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Think folk are being bit unfair on McKenzie . I don’t think he looks like a full back but still a decent defender and would like to see how he does at centre back maybe as left of a three. Definitely worth keeping. Also Lewis is getting a lot of unwarranted stick. He might not be playing as well as he has in previous seasons but he is still a decent keeper by SPFL standard and there are only 3 or 4 in the league better than him in my opinion.

Heres what Goodwin said re new players - " Goodwin said: “I have been brought in here to make some difficult decisions. “I asked for that bit of autonomy when I took the job as manager. I want to be allowed to make those decisions. “Only time will tell whether they are the right ones, but we have identified some very good players. “We are talking to a lot of good players at the moment, to try and strengthen the squad for next season.

I don't think you have every right to expect better performances at this stage. Whilst you often get a new manager bounce, it isn't always the case and usually it has no bearing on managerial ability (if anything, it can hide the reality of a poor manager). That we didn't get a new manager bounce isn't really indicative of anything other than a poor quality squad that lacks balance. When you saw the catastrophe on the bench at the weekend, it illustrates the dilemma for Goodwin. I agree entirely with the rest though, the club is a shambles right now and it's not going to be a quick fix. We're going to have to be extremely patient next season. We might manage to put a good run of games together, but we're never going to have the quality of squad to get to third unless we get very lucky with injuries, or get 6-7 successful signings.

So worse football, same results, still no use. As said by LA-Don, shouldn’t an “upgraded” coach get more out of the same squad? Especially under the director of football and head of recruitment model, where the coach is only really being asked to coach and organise the team. The failings this season are down to poor recruitment and poor coaching/management. We’ve changed the latter and have every right to expect better performances. Otherwise we’d have been as well keeping glass, unless someone comes out and either changes the recruitment model or tells us it’s been scrapped and we’re back to having one man in charge. I’ve said before, none of this stuff is indicative of a club that has one single clue about what it’s doing.

Talking to very good players and signing them is very different. Anyone that is a very good player for us will also be able to play in the championship or EPL (most likely too good for us.) Add Hearts for example and the offer of living in Edinburgh and European football, recruitment is tough. English options will most likely offer a better wage, plus we can't say we are the 3rd best team in Scotland and offering Euro footie. As has been mentioned, most of these players will wait for the best offer, very few come to us because Aberdeen was always the team they wanted to play for. Summer is going to be a bit of a shit show me thinks...

My phrase actually doesn't come across the way I really meant it Rico. What I did however mean is that I hope we have some concrete signings/plans in situ given how early we are in binning the dross.

Maybe not automatic relegation but I question if this team has the drive that the 1994/95 team did when it came to the playoffs and thats where the Butcher's hibs spectre lies.

I don't think it really matters who's first. I didn't hear him say it either, but someone said that Goodwin had stated that we were going to sign some very good players in the summer. This seems a little naive unless we've got watertight guarantees that players are coming. The players have all got the upper hand (if they're any good), and they'll take as long as they need to weigh up potential offers from other clubs, resulting in several of our good signings actually going elsewhere. It's very unlikely that we won't be scrambling around at the end of August like always as that's the way the window is designed.

I'd like to think we're ahead of others in terms of recruitment given the numbers leaving. Unfortunately I don't think I would be right in thinking that way

Despite the apparent howlers,were in 10th place with the 4th best defensive record. Does that not suggest our most urgent problems lie further up the park. Assuming were not going to get anywhere near a complete squad soon,I would focus on that area this time round 1) because its more likely to rekindle dwindling interest among fans. 2) A bit more firepower might take the pressure off the defence,and shut up our supports winging elements' over dwelling on every mistake

I know you're probably right Panda, but there is that nagging doubt remains that there is more than a whiff of Butcher's Hibs about our team

The stats are interesting. I'm not sure what they actually show though in terms of being a good goalkeeper. I genuinely believe that we've had the worst centre back pairings in the league all season, along with a kamakazi set of tactics for the majority. There's definitely been a decrease in game changing saves from Joe over the past year though, that's for certain. For years, he was the best at one on ones in the league.

Fair enough min. Agree to disagree. His bad form isnt just this season its been near on 2 full seasons. I'd love us to get matt macey or Siegrist

Let me guess you were one of the geniuses calling for Brown to play earlier in the season. From games I have watched most of the keepers you list have made numerous mistakes that have cost their team points including in games against us. I will give you the wife beater, Gordon and Kelly but others are not as good as Lewis even with his dip in form this season.

I'd keep MacKenzie, BUT only as a defending LB very similar scenario to Ramsey. MacKenzie is a good defender but doesn't offer much going forward & still needs to learn to get back quicker when possession is lost. Ramsey is great going forward but is a poor defender, needs to learn to defend better. Both are still young and have great potential. Bates & Gallagher...wouldn't be too fussed if they left. This Gallagher has come on more in the latter part of the season, was shocking early on. Bates...not convinced. Hayes agreed, would like to see him stay. At 35(?) plays better further up, shouldn't be used to run up and down as a LB now.

No surprise really. SKY genuinely could not give a fuck about Scottish Football.

Someone must have told Ferguson there was a scout in the crowd watching him or something. I lost count of the amount of times in the first half he dropped deep to take the ball from Bates and launched a Hollywood pass to no man’s land as if he thought he was the bastard love child of Lothar Mattheus and Tom Brady. If he is going to act the cunt, he could at least have the decency to be good while doing it so we can get a decent transfer fee.

I don't think he's crap, but I don't think he's good enough either, and nor do I think there's much room for improvement in his game at his age. McKenzie got a lot of undue credit after McInnes left because Glass was blooding young players that would never have got a game previously. In reality, we had a fantastic young player in Ramsay who wasn't (and perhaps isn't) ready for 90 minutes who would no way have been overlooked by McInnes and McKenzie who just wasn't good enough (and would likely have been let go). We formed this imaginary scenario where we were playing entertaining fitba and throwing in youngsters too - it just wasn't true. It led to McKenzie getting a contract with the jury firmly still out. If RST's suggested departures are accurate though, it leaves us thin on the ground. It's bizarre that with all those leaving Considine wasn't kept. I'm guessing we add Duncan to that as I assume he'll be looking for minutes, and maybe Ngwenya too (although I'm not sure if he'll be good enough either). I have a feeling that Polvara isn't of the required standard either, so he'll likely only be a squad player too. We'll be very lucky to keep Ramsay. It's an insane level of recruitment required, very difficult to understate just how hard this will be to get even close to right. I'd count 7 new first team players required (assuming Ramsay leaves): goalie, right back, left centre back, left back, left winger, centre midfielder, striker. There is no way on earth that we're getting 7 succesful signings in one window, so that means that likes of Hayes, Bates and McKenzie (I'd probably include Watkins and McRorie too) are going to continue to be our best options in their respective positions with zero options from the bench when needed. Cormack has massive questions to answer in regard to the last three windows and how it has managed to get to this stage. It'd take an absolute miracle to sort this to any degree next season. I'd say you're at best looking at another 3 windows to get close, but more likely this is going to take us 2 seasons to fix. What a disaster.

Nothing to add to the fitba thread.Done a few more sections of the coastal route.Newtonhill to Muchalls was a bit dour.Muchalls to Stoney was brilliant.Lots of twists,turns and surprises on the way. Also did a section from Catterline to Crawton.Involved a lot of walking on the edge of newly seeded fields.Its possible to walk the outside of the field fences but its a bit rough,pathless and often exposed.Good walk though.Saw a pod of Pilot whales Muchalls beach near the railway bridge Waterfall at crawton